Interview with David Player on RID racism controversy

Alex (Daily Moth): You wrote in your blog, “Dear White Deaf People,” that white deaf people tend to dismiss racism and only focus on audism. In this vein, what is your analysis on RID’s situation?

David Player: That situation got out of hand, wow. Yeah. The biggest problem is how they framed racism. They tend to think that it is Black people’s issue. So they don’t feel that they benefit from racism. They think that structural oppression comes from society in general and focus only on audism. But wait, white deaf people don’t think about their white deaf privilege. They don’t think about that. Often the biggest problem with discussing racism is that white people don’t look at themselves as a part of a race. There’s no racial identity. That’s a big problem. From my notes from the “White Fragility” book, let me look at it here. It says that when white people experience other forms of oppression, they can’t experience racial privilege. That means if white deaf people experience audism, it means that they “don’t have any white privilege.” That means white deaf people can’t oppress Black people because they are already oppressed by audism? No way. That’s how they completely end discussions of racism and intersectionality and layers of audism. It just ends there. It becomes a barrier. So, that’s a big problem. And I said that in my first article on how this (discussion) ends quickly. In my other notes from “Me and White Supremacy,” it explains about white centeredness. It is when the focus is on “my views, my experiences, my thoughts, and my actions.” It’s all about me, instead of looking at various viewpoints. So that’s why this situation didn’t go well. Those discussions were cut off.

Alex: What went wrong in this process? What is your view on what would be the appropriate way to address it? I get it that they are hearing, but the race aspect is left behind. What is your take on it?

David: That whole thing is evidence of white gaze. They have the ability to ignore race, racism, and the fact that it is deeply embedded in our country. How did slaves come about? Through the law. Who came up with it? White people. So all that is ignored. Wow.

So I’ll go into some detail from a book related to deaf history.

[David shows a book titled, “Signs of Resistance: American Deaf Cultural History, 1900 to World War II” by Susan Burch]

David: This is “Signs of Resistance: American Deaf Cultural History, 1900 to World War II.” I’ll show you something. Page 92 to 93. This book was written by Dr. Susan Burch. She was a former Gallaudet professor in, I think, history. She is a hearing woman and wrote about the period from 1900 to World War II. She talked about racism in the deaf community. I’ll share some things.

She said race is counted in local, state, and regional deaf organizations in that they rejected Black deaf people. She put this down. Former NAD president Bryan Burns said the NAD did not formally ban African-Americans until 1925. Wow. So racism was there throughout history. It’s ingrained, against all African-Americans and Black people. It didn’t matter if they were Black deaf, Black Coda, or Black hearing, it was all Black people, period. They were prohibited. Wow.

I’ll share one last thing. In 1913, there was a deaf publication called “The Silent Observer.” It had a piece that mocked Black people. It made fun of them. So, all of this history shows me that white deaf have been discriminating against Black people for all this time. So that’s where I see the connection to today. With the first Black RID president — yes I understand that he is hearing — but again, he’s the first Black person, so that is very commendable. He finished his first term of service, and then the RID voters decided to vote for him for a second term. And he was skewered. Whoa. Why give him that treatment? They should hold on and consider who voted for him. The voters made that decision to pick him. Dr. (Jonathan) Webb didn’t cheat in the election. The voters elected him. Why is that? I don’t know. Based on his merits? His qualifications? Maybe they felt he needed one more term. But white deaf people screamed, “audism” and sharply criticized him. So that’s where some said this became racist. So, again, the truth is that throughout history, white deaf people have been oppressing Black people. That’s white privilege. I did discuss this in my “Dear White Deaf People” article. They have a lot of privileges. That’s why I coined the phrase, “White deaf privilege is the cousin of white privilege.” It is somewhat on the same level, but of course white hearing people are at the very top, but white deaf people are close. It’s still very strong. They caused Dr. Webb to resign. The first Black president to resign. That’s a history that we don’t want to see. But it’s done.

So, now, related to one of my notes from “Me and White Supremacy,” which is written by a Black hearing woman, she said that there is always power and privilege dynamics in play, but those at the top of the hierarchy are the ones with white privilege. The bottom are those who do not have white privilege. So, who doesn’t have this privilege? Black people. So, Black interpreters, Black deaf, Black hearing, Black Codas, all Black people, we do not have privileges. We’re at the bottom. We don’t have this type of institutional power to drag down white people down. None. It’s impossible. It’s true that we have various privileges such as male, cisgender, or hearing ability. There are some others, yes, but when it comes to race, the disparity in power is so obvious. That.

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Alex: Historically, interpreters are hearing and white, a high percentage of them. I remember somewhere that BIPOC interpreters make up a very small percentage.

David: If you want to be specific about Black interpreters, it’s just 5 percent.

Alex: 5%

David: That’s a statistic from 2018. I put that in my “White Gaze” article. Just five percent? While 87% is white?

Alex: So, that’s where — the RID Board might have gone in a direction of bringing in more BIPOC interpreters. That could have been the momentum, and it looks like it was so easy to just end that progress. It’s gone now. So, what is the negative impact of that?

David: From my observations, they are sending us, Black people, a message. If you want to contribute, if you want to become involved and support the deaf community, they will never appreciate our contributions. And if you want to move up the ranks, do it at your own risk. One wrong move, and you’re done. That’s what I explained in “White Gaze.” If a Black interpreter makes one mistake, maybe a wrong sign, or they might have some kind of bias related to their hearing, or whatever, their jobs will be taken away. Their reputation will be lost. Dr. Webb’s reputation is now lost for example. He’s marked as an audist. Wow. That’s the dominating power of white gaze. It shows me that their privilege is very powerful. It doesn’t matter if white hearing people oppress white deaf people, but they are still near the peak of the racial hierarchy.

That is the message we are seeing. If we get promoted, or want to get involved with improving the interpreting field, or with a deaf organization, RID, or others, I’ll feel very wary and want to back out. That means we Black deaf people have no representation. On the other hand, Black hearing people who are signers and want to be interpreters, or become advocates for the deaf, might feel nervous and decide they don’t want to be involved. They might just work in their communities but when talking about working on a professional level for a career, they may back out. So that means, remember the 5% statistic about Black interpreters, it might go down to 3% or 2% or 1%. Then white deaf people might say, “Where are the Black people? Why? What happened to them?” You own it. Own it. You’re responsible for anti-Black racism. Targeting us in addition to the white history of 400 years of oppression. You’ve added to that. Wow. It’s a double whammy.

You have to think first, “Who chose that person?” Look at the (voters). Take a pulse on their views. Instead of unloading on one person. That will only send Black deaf people a message — if you’re so against a Black hearing person, that means you’re against us too. We see race first. It’s not down on a list. It’s at the top. While white deaf people look at race as the third or fourth or fifth thing. You’re ignoring history that is deeply ingrained. This is pertaining to white gaze, the ability to ignore race and put it aside and say “That’s your problem.” But you’re maintaining racism against Black people. That is a huge problem. So what is my advice? You have to analyze yourself and do research on anti-Black racism, look at your biases, your thinking, your reaction, all that, look at it and decide what you have to do with it.

Alex: I really appreciate your time and your contributions. Thank you very much, David Player.

David: Sure. Thank you for bringing me here.