Deaf couple reaches summit of Mount Everest

If you have been following Scott Lehmann and Shayna Unger’s journey, you will know that they have reached the top of the tallest mountain in the world, Mount Everest, on May 22, 2023 at 6:00am.

[videos: https://www.instagram.com/p/CrwhYeugXeU/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CtRZJyXg-_q/ ]

[Photos: Credit @migmar95 / @scottandshayna & @steven_peakbagging / @scottandshayna ]

They also reached Lhotse Mountain which is the fourth-highest mountain in the world. They reached both within 26 hours. We did interview them on March 31st about their experience of how they got ready for Mount Everest. Now, they have completed this journey so here is the follow-up interview with them.

Shayna: It’s already been one month since we climbed to the top of Mount Everest. And we were just on a run and I said to Scott, I wonder if the feeling of reaching the top of Everest will ever sink in. It feels like it’s impossible that it actually happened. You see and hear about it in movies and books but for it to happen to someone in the Deaf community, let alone to us, it feels like it’s so hard to picture it happening. And even with it being one month today since we did it, it still feels like it didn’t actually happen. It’s an interesting feeling to have.

Scott: Sometimes it feels like it was all a dream. But I tap myself and realize that wow, I am actually here.

Renca: Shayna, you said you two were running? Did you have to have a “post-exercise” routine afterward? I feel like you should’ve had your feet up and been relaxing, is that not the case?

[both guests laugh]

Shayna: No, we still try to continue running. We feel like running helps us disconnect and calm down. We’re both busy all day and everything moves so fast here so running allows us that time to disconnect from all of that during the middle of the day. So we usually keep up with running.

Scott: And it’s important to stay committed and to keep going. We have more things to do in the future. Just because we reached the top of Everest doesn’t mean that we’re done. We have to keep in shape and stay committed to doing it.

Renca: So you reached the summit, was it what you imagined mentally and physically? I know that you prepared everything ahead of time, down to the equipment that you used and brought. It wasn’t like you could go back down if you forgot to bring something. Did everything you prepare work out? Did you have everything you needed? Did everything work well with the sherpa? Did you feel mentally ready to climb the mountain or was it not what you expected once you reached the top?

Scott: I always tell people you can’t be 100% prepared, it’s impossible. Even though you can’t, we did make sure we had everything. We also reached out to our team to make sure our training beforehand was good. As far as the equipment, we had sponsors so we were able to get everything we needed. We felt good as far as our physical fitness as well. Outside of that, it was just the unforeseen things that could happen while on the mountain. It’s hard to predict those types of things, the things that we can’t control. While we were on the mountain this year, we didn’t expect it to be as cold as it was. It was very cold and windy as well. So what ended up happening was that many people ended up getting frostbite. They got it on their fingers and toes because it was so cold. Also, this year, the government set a record for how many permits they gave out. They gave the highest amount of permits this year. How many were there?

Shayna: I think 464 this year.

Scott: 464 climbers were able to go.

Renca: How many do they typically give out?

Scott: The number gets higher and higher every year. About 10 years ago, they gave out about maybe 300, but I don’t know the number for sure. You can look online but I would imagine it was closer to the 300 number. And then this year, they gave out 464 permits. They were starting to get concerned if the mountain could handle that many people. So it’s 464 permits plus sherpas, too. There’s usually one sherpa per person. There are also people who are there to film and then there are even people who have additional people with them as well.

Shayna: There are guides.

Scott: Yes guides too, and it just keeps adding up. With all those people, it was over 1,200 people. So on —

Renca: Oh, that’s right! So it was the 464 plus you said each person must have a sherpa?

Shayna: It wasn’t required. You’re right, if I decided to hire a sherpa, then it’s typically a 1:1 ratio. One sherpa per climber. But there are climbers who did climb without sherpas. Those are the climbers who are very experienced. They might even try to climb without any oxygen, too. That group of people are called unsupported and it’s a very small number of people who are in that group. But for most of the climbers, they have a sherpa.

Scott: So, they gave out that many permits which meant there were a lot of people climbing. On top of that, it was extremely cold and very windy. The weather itself wasn’t the best either. We had to wait and wait because of the weather. Those were things beyond our control. We often tell people that the mountain will decide when we can go. The mountain decides when to welcome us. We can’t let our egos guide us while climbing either. We have to stay humble and wait for the right time. We might get good weather or we might have to wait longer for good weather to happen. So those were the many different factors that were beyond our control.

Renca: So now that you’ve both completed the climb with your sherpas, did you develop a nice bond with them? Was there any conflict, how was that?

Scott: We call our sherpas our guardian angels. We both really love our sherpas so much. We told both of them many times that if it wasn’t for them, we might not have made it to the top. We couldn’t have done it without them. They really are our heroes. Our sherpas were twin brothers. It just feels like we have a love and a bond with them. It’s hard to explain.

[Photo: Credit @scottandshayna ]

Shayna: It’s hard. Everything worked out so well having them paired with us. Of course in the beginning it was a little jarring. We were new to each other and we had to figure out their communication styles. But as time went on, we ended up connecting with them. Now, it’s to the point where I can’t imagine anyone else doing it with us. We were lucky to have them both climbing with us.

Scott: We were with them for two months. And at the beginning, communication was tough. It was a struggle at first navigating that as they spoke Nepali, and sherpas have their own language too. It’s their community tribe language. So that left English as their third language. They speak English, okay, but writing and reading English, it was challenging. I don’t blame them because that is the same with us- ASL is our first language while English is second which was their third! Despite that initial barrier, by the end of our two months together people were shocked by how the four of us were able to have regular conversations together that we all understood. So we had a unique bond together. It gives me chills just thinking about it. It was hard to leave each other at the end of it. I think one of the biggest takeaways was their attitude and their perspective. From day one, they were very positive. They were all about let’s make it work. Because of that, we had great results. I feel like that attitude applies to everything.

Scott: It applies to how the world sees Deaf people and those with disabilities. If you’re willing to work with these communities and you have a positive attitude, the results will be great! It’s all about your attitude and your mindset.

Shayna: I do want to ask you a tough question. I know that you did meet another Deaf person, Hawari from Malaysia, and it was totally unplanned to meet him. I’m not sure how much time you had with him, but you did meet another Deaf mountaineer, what are the chances of that? And honestly, the chances of that happening again are either never or maybe way, way into the future. It was a fortunate moment that you were able to share together. We know that he was your friend, too. I’m just curious what your connection or relationship was with Hawari? I know the circumstances of what happened to him are unfortunate but I’m just curious, what are your thoughts on that? What was your relationship like with him? What would you like for us to know about him to remember him even though we didn’t know him as a person? I’m curious what your thoughts are and what the Deaf community can remember him by.

Scott: I think the biggest impact was the sense of normalcy. We communicated through Instagram DMs and we agreed to meet. We messaged each other a lot before the meeting. Our base camp was like our home or a village. It looked like there were over 50 different base camps all over. The area where the base camps are is one mile long so it’s almost like a small town. Some of the little villages had coffee shops or—

Shayna: A makeshift one. They were domes and there would be a dining dome. There was also one big dome for people who were under the same company, SST - Seven Summit Treks, to gather at the coffee shop to meet other people. But the other domes surrounding it were based on groups. We all would gather at that big dome though. At that time, Wi-Fi was down for two or three days and we weren’t sure how to meet up. So he went to that coffee shop and talked to other people there to ask where the other Deaf couple was and of course, everyone knew who he was talking about. So they radioed to our expert guide and they let us know that our friend was there. We were like which friend is it? So we went anyway and met Hawari. We didn’t know where each other's domes were so that’s why we met at the big dome and that was the first time we met him.

Scott: I call it a coffee shop, it’s like that “Deaf center” for us. You know how Deaf people typically use that sign for “Deaf meetups” so that place was our meet-up. There were so many domes everywhere so meeting there was that feeling of normalcy. It felt like finally, some normalcy. In the midst of the mountains, in the middle of nowhere, we felt that normalcy. Often, we’re with all hearing people and we don’t always understand what they’re saying. Sometimes we can use our phones to communicate and sometimes people just have bad attitudes and are not interested and some people were willing to chat with us through phone. Once we finally met up with Hawari, we finally had that chance to chat in sign language.

Shayna: We felt like we were finally ourselves.

Scott: Right. And that doesn’t always happen often. It felt like an “ahhh” moment. We used a mix of ASL and International Sign to communicate. He was able to share what he went through and we shared what we went through. And our experiences were pretty similar. When we, as Deaf people, get together at conferences, or at NAD meetings, an international event, or Deaflympics, we get to share our experiences together and there are always similarities, even all around the world.

Renca: Thank you for sharing. I know it’s not an easy position to be in for you two. I know you have your wonderful accomplishments but we’re also all grieving for a member of our Deaf community from a different country as well. I really appreciate you sharing some sentiments about Hawari.

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Renca: Now, my last question. What are your next steps? I know this was your 4th summit. I know you plan to continue your outreach with the Deaf community and with Deaf schools and universities and all of that. But what is your next big step? I know you might not be able to share some of that stuff now but what can you share with us?

Shayna: What do you want to share?

Scott: So right now, we’re recovering. We do have three cool things coming up and there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work going on. Then in July, we should be able to make some announcements about what’s next. So make sure you’re checking out our Instagram or our Facebook page to see those announcements. Which summit are we doing next?

Shayna: That’s to be determined.

Scott: It’s a secret! We’ll announce that soon!

Renca: You’ll announce soon, okay! We’ll have to stay tuned to your social media to find out. It’s good to keep us on our toes with those announcements. I look forward to watching your progress. I know you aim to reach the seven tallest summits- looking forward to your journey on that. Once again, congratulations on reaching the summit of the highest mountain in the world. Congratulations to you Shayna for being the first Deaf woman to do so and to you Scott for being the first Deaf American man to do so as well. And now we’re ready to see what comes next for you both. Congratulations!

Shayna: Thank you!

Renca: Thank you Scott and Shayna for your time. They aim to reach the goal of climbing the seven tallest summits on seven continents. Mount Everest was their 4th summit. They have three more to go. We congratulate them on their success. You can check out their videos related to Mount Everest and follow their journey on their social media account @scottandshayna. We included a link to their account in the transcript.