Interview with NBDA President and Claudia Gordon
THE DAILY MOTH:
Hello. Thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate your time. You (Isidore Niyangabo) is the NBDA President and Claudia Gordon is a former Board of Trustees member. Both of you have been involved with Gallaudet and several things have happened recently. This week the Gallaudet Board of Trustees announced that President Bobbi Cordano would have a five-year contract extension and Dr. Glenn Anderson is the Board Chair. Can you share your reaction to that? How do you feel? Your thoughts?
CLAUDIA GORDON:
I’ll let the president speak.
ISIDORE NIYANGABO:
Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this. Our reaction is that we are not surprised because we already had some internal rumors and we planned to follow up with the Board for confirmation. We now have a clear answer. For sure, Dr. Glenn Anderson’s appointment as the Board Chair is a huge honor because he has that experience and is the most respected leader in our community for a long time. He is willing to step up at the most challenging time and that is a true example of the kind of leadership that we need. He has taken on a very difficult assignment. While we at NBDA fully support him all the way, at the same time, we are very doubtful that change will actually happen. Why is that? Claudia Gordon here had to resign. Duane Halliburton resigned. Dr. Natwar Gandhi also stepped down. So it’s many BIPOC members who have stepped down. Will appointing Dr. Anderson make a change, an impact? That’s to be seen.
As for the extension for Roberta Cordano’s contract, my reaction, as many others, is one of shock. Technically, they completely ignored the people’s concerns. NBDA and our allies are still strong believers that Bobbi is not the right person to lead Gallaudet University right now.
Claudia, it’s your floor.
CLAUDIA GORDON:
Thank you for having me here with you. Clearly, I’m here in my personal capacity as a member of the Black Deaf community. I am not representing any entity. With respect to Dr. Anderson, as many of you know, he is one of our most treasured elders and mentors, and a leader in the Black Deaf community. I just wrote up a tribute to honor him. At the same time, I think the announcement of his appointment sent shockwaves throughout the community with him being selected as Chair. The president, Isidore, has already explained that he is capable, but at the same time, what is mysterious about that appointment as chair is that of many ways that the university could have tapped in his, who he is, what he brings to the table, there are many other ways they could use him. Especially at this time in our community, someone of his stature is worthy to be called to serve, but as the Board Chair? Myself, as the most recent person who resigned, found that he… I will choose my words carefully because I am not going to play in the hands of those who seek to divide and conquer our community. There is a semblance that division is behind some of the decisions that we have seen come out of the university. I have worked to hard to promote unity, so I will choose my words carefully. I support Dr. Anderson, who still has my deep love and honor. I believe that he is worth so much more. If the university recognizes his worth, they should hire him. As a consultant. Hire him as a mediator between the university and the community to facilitate dialogue. The meeting of minds, building trust and unity, and building understanding. He would be perfect in that role. As a consultant, as an advisor, but instead, as a chair? That is a mystery. Also, behind the scenes, I know that they tried to bring in a former Trustee Duane (Halliburton). I understand that people tried to sway him to become the Chair of the Board, but it didn’t work. He respectfully declined. I understand that there was internal pressure for Seth Bravin who was as of two days ago the Chair, there was internal and external pressure, because of the Kappa Gamma situation, for him to step down from that position. There was also internal and external pressure, as the community can see from vlogs and posts, for Greg (Hlibok) to also step down from his role on the Executive Committee. There was also threats against additional board members to step down if the aforementioned two did not relinquish their leadership roles. So I, unfortunately, in my view, Dr. Anderson is a resolution to keep the two on the Board and at the same time resolve the issue of having a Chair. It is an unfortunate way to take advantage of Dr. Anderson because I know there are many ways they could capitalize on what he offers to the university while at the same time giving him the ability to have his neutrality that would have been available to the community that needs him very much. So I wish him the best. I know I’ve tried for 9 years! I was not successful, obviously. That’s why I am no longer on the board. I can’t be a part of the solution. I’m all about solutions. I’m all about results. My heart is always with my community. If I feel that I can’t resolve things after 9 years, I know it’s time for me to leave and become an advocate on the outside with my people. It’s been a while. Pamela Lloyd-Ogoke tried, but she was not successful. Many consultants were brought in to plan diversity and inclusion development over the years. Have we seen changes? Based on recent incidents, obviously not. So I wish Dr. Anderson the best. And… well, I’ll leave it at that.
ISIDORE NIYANGABO:
Our goal is to continue the dialogue with the board who made the decision. We can’t say that their decision is wrong or right. What we know, per our previous request — that Gallaudet University as the center of global deaf success, as a reflection of deaf schools that look to it as a model of education, leadership, and academics — we have not seen any action since our letter. We have finalized a follow-up letter to the Board of Trustees to ask them to show us where the line is between the Board’s responsibility to oversee the university president and staff organizations. Right now it seems like it’s the other way around with the president controlling the Board. If I understand it right, that is a bigger concern regardless of any change to the presidency. We need Board members who will take a strong stance to support the university, including establishing expectations for the president and the leadership team. If that issue is not resolved, we will continue to see problems.
THE DAILY MOTH:
Claudia, can you explain why you decided to leave the Board, which was recent?
CLAUDIA GORDON:
I wrote an email that was leaked. You already saw it. It speaks for itself. Basically, I didn’t feel I was effective in terms of racism issues that would come up again and again on campus. I lead with humanity. I value people. It is hard to be a part of a group when you feel your hands are tied. There is also a burden placed on basically two, three people, who are deeply invested to act on this issue. It is simply not addressed on the same level of passion, commitment, and resources as other areas such as audism or bilingualism. Racism didn’t seem to be a top priority. There was a lot of talk, a lot of planning and strategy, but was there real action or actual changes? After nine years, I got tired of it, and to be honest with you, it started to affect me in a personal way. I was traumatized and re-traumatized again and again. I felt it was time for me to channel my time and energy, to channel my fight in different ways. I really feel it’s important that the Board recognizes its role as the boss and to not shy away from taking bold decisions and action. To hold the university leadership accountable. Lead with humanity again. Think of the people.
I sincerely wish Dr. Anderson the best. I know it’s been 15 years he departed. Gallaudet University is a different place today. The entire Board makeup is nothing like the last time. I don’t believe he knows any of, well maybe on the surface, but did he work with them, does he know the climate, the type of the board as he becomes the Chair? That’s a very tall order. He is capable, but at the same time, I just left, so I know what it is like. Again, my letter speaks for itself. I was tired. It seemed like Black people were looked at to lead the charge of dismantling racism when we are victims on the top of that. We had to do the work. Huh? No.
THE DAILY MOTH:
I can get that. I have seen a saying, “Why do Black people have to clean up the mess that white people caused?”
ISIDORE NIYANGABO:
We’ve tried. We try because we care, even if it is not our jobs. But we are humans and sometimes we get exhausted. I can imagine what it was like for Claudia. Thank you for your service and whatever you do in your work will surely impact our future and the next generation. Thank you.
CLAUDIA GORDON:
Know that I am in this fight for the long run. You can count on me for that.
THE DAILY MOTH:
The Black Lives Matter movement is still making its progress. We don’t want to let that stop, but to maintain it.
CLAUDIA GORDON:
Dismantling structural and systemic racism requires work, real work. And I think there are people in our community who are ready to partner up and do the work. We’re waiting. Well, we’re not just waiting, we have been working. We’ve been working on Saturdays and Sundays hosting dialogues with the community on what it means. We need more to join the effort. I think it is important that our community participates in defining what “dismantling systemic racism” or “getting rid of structural oppression” or all that — what does that really mean? What would the successful milestones be? What does success look like? We have to put it on the table to define what the components are and what it really means. In the true sense of the words. It is an abstract concept, and what does it translate to? What are our expectations? What is our ask? We have to define those things. A group of us has already started that work, for institutions, for universities, for organizations just like the NAD and the RID. It is important that we be proactive. If anyone is curious about that work and effort, reach out to me. I didn’t leave the Board to sit back. No, I left the Board so I could be free to really work with the community and speak freely like I am now. This thing I was not able to do in the past. So it is a shame, I hate to say this, but it’s almost like being on the Board at Gallaudet, while at the time being a member of the Black Deaf community, I’m neutralized. I don’t represent anything. I do have fiduciary responsibilities, but there are limitations there. There’s this other thing. So it’s a difficult spot to navigate. So, now that I’m off, I feel that I have a duty and an obligation to my community. To do things that will help move us forward. I am supporting the NBDA as our umbrella organization and supporting the president.
ISIDORE NIYANGABO:
Thank you. Really, this is not a time for the self. This is a time for a challenge. One of Martin Luther King, Jr’s quotes is, “The ultimate measure of a person is not where they stand during moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.” We need everyone to think about that. If you are in a leadership role, you will have to make sacrifices. Yes, you might lose your jobs. I’ve lost friends. You might lost your stellar reputation. But if you believe everyone deserves an opportunity to enjoy their freedom and human rights, including equality and respect, an opportunity for career advancement, for better education and and an opportunity to move in your environments without a risk based on your race, or where you were born, you should stand up and say “no.” Right now our challenge is that there are too many leaders who are worried about their own jobs, when their actions hurt our people who have no power. We must stand against that.
THE DAILY MOTH:
That’s very clear. It’s very clear what you two explained. I really appreciate your time. Thank you very much. I’ll look for the NBDA letter and we’ll see what happens going forward.
CLAUDIA AND ISIDORE:
Thank you for having me.
THE DAILY MOTH:
Thank you.